Big Z

[TheBenjamin]

thats exactly what i said in my post. the bump had nothing to do with it

[VanMan]

Originally Posted by LeeEila's/rant FANTASTIC !!! Thank you , It is good to hear from an umpire that has been trained !! You being and umpire , do you also think that these guys , not just in the Cubs games but across all of baseball are interjecting themselves in the games more than ever before ?

I see where you're coming from, Lee. In fact, SportsCenter has a running joke whenever someone gets run, about an "umpire's fantasy league." Yes, the umpires are getting themselves too involved in the game. However, I think it's because the players and managers are arguing more.

Originally Posted by Bims First off all you were a high school ump. No offense, but that's like a veterinnarian thinking they have something in common with an ER doctor. Carlos was NOT defending himself. What a homer statememnt. He was over-aggressive in his hissy fit against the ump. Why do we think so low of the ump's that we think it's ok for him to be berrated like they are? I understand that you guys are homers that can't stand back and see things fairly. But think about it this way. One adult man was simply doing his job(the ump), and made a CORRECT call on a tough play. Another adult man(Zambrano) yells and screams and gets in the ump's(an adult) face. Forget the bump. Why does Carlos have the right to get in another mans face like that? Why can't the ump defend himself? In what other job can a worker get in the face of a co-worker? Perspective people!

About Carlos defending himself, I am not saying that was what he was doing, I'm just speculating because Carlson moved into Zambrano needlessly. Had it been to escort him either back to the mound or to the dugout, I'd understand Carlson going to Z for that purpose. However, Carlson seemed to try to escalate the confrontation and not de-escalate it.

Now, I was hoping for a lesser suspension and a fine because they'd only get him on the antics and not the contact. However, MLB is probably trying to tell Z, "Keep yourself in check, as you have anger issues." At least Z's a big enough man to take the suspension and not appeal it being that it was for how he acted. If the suspension was for the contact, he'd have every right to appeal.

[TheBenjamin]

Z needs to go to anger management.

[Bims]

Originally Posted by VanMan About Carlos defending himself, I am not saying that was what he was doing, I'm just speculating because Carlson moved into Zambrano needlessly. Had it been to escort him either back to the mound or to the dugout, I'd understand Carlson going to Z for that purpose. However, Carlson seemed to try to escalate the confrontation and not de-escalate it.

How did Carlson seem to escalate the confrontation? If Carlos simply goes back to the mound and acts like an adult, their is NO confrontation. Carlson simply did his job, and made the CORRECT call on a tough play. Zambrano comes in his face, screaming and yelling over the call. Now the argument was already escalated before Carlson even said a word. Carlson did nothing to make the argument worse. I love how it's ok for one adult(Zambrano) to get in the face on another adult(Carlson) who was simply doing his job correctly. But Carlson isn't allowed to raise his voice or defend himself. Carlson is somehow expected to coddle the spoiled athlete who is over the top and in his face. Seriously. step back and see this from a human aspect. NOT as a Cubs fan. Unfortunately, Cubs fans have trouble doing so in many situation.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by VanMan Bims, you are absolutely WRONG about what an umpire is supposed to do, and what that umpire did. I used to umpire high school baseball games. We're told to try to not escalate arguments, rather prevent them. If a coach/manager charges after one of us, we're told to put a hand out in front of us and shout in a firm, forceful voice, "WHOA!" We're also to let the coach/manager say his piece as long as it doesn't get too personal. If he swears or instigates contact, then we can give him the heave-ho. Otherwise (at least in the high school level), we can warn him. If he gets out of line again or further, then he's gone. We are not told to manhandle or instigate contact with a player or coach/manager to cause an ejection. What the video clearly showed in yesterday's game is the home-plate umpire leaned into Zambrano, which Zambrano instictively defended himself by brushing him off. Because of the defensive (not offensive) contact, Zambrano was shown the door. What that umpire should have done was stepped away from Zambrano, and then if Zambrano had gone after him, he would have been in the right to toss him. MLB should either reprimand or suspend that umpire for his actions. Zambrano, on the other hand, could either get a simple fine or a light suspension.

You just GET it!

[VanMan]

Originally Posted by Bims How did Carlson seem to escalate the confrontation? If Carlos simply goes back to the mound and acts like an adult, their is NO confrontation. Carlson simply did his job, and made the CORRECT call on a tough play. Zambrano comes in his face, screaming and yelling over the call. Now the argument was already escalated before Carlson even said a word. Carlson did nothing to make the argument worse. I love how it's ok for one adult(Zambrano) to get in the face on another adult(Carlson) who was simply doing his job correctly. But Carlson isn't allowed to raise his voice or defend himself. Carlson is somehow expected to coddle the spoiled athlete who is over the top and in his face. Seriously. step back and see this from a human aspect. NOT as a Cubs fan. Unfortunately, Cubs fans have trouble doing so in many situation.

Bims:

If you'd read the posts the other fogpoggers who've replied on this board, maybe eight out of 10 agree with me. I'm not saying we're all right. It's just they agree with me, that Carlson is just as much in the wrong as Zambrano was. I'm not saying Zambrano was right to argue as voraciously as he did. He mainly disagreed with a call and was a bit too forceful about it. He would have returned to the mound if he felt his point was made, but Carlson leaned into him to cause contact. That set off Zambrano more. Of course, Lou and Larry were about to step in between them, but it was too late. Those two were ready to do their jobs and keep their pitcher in the game (for the most part). If anyone was going to try to be thrown out in that situation, it was going to be Lou.

Of course, we're going to be on opposite sides of this issue, so I guess I've had more than my say on this matter.

[Bims]

Originally Posted by VanMan Bims: If you'd read the posts the other fogpoggers who've replied on this board, maybe eight out of 10 agree with me. I'm not saying we're all right. It's just they agree with me, that Carlson is just as much in the wrong as Zambrano was.

That's hardly a point in your favor for being right. Cubs fans are homers who can't be unbias in their opinions. They are defending an adult male who threw his glove in the stands, and through a hissy fit over a call the ump got right. The bottom line is that their is no altercation if Zambrano simply acted like an adult. Zambrano initiated the incident the moment he decided to over the top argue a call the ump got CORRECT. The ump did nothing wrong except defend himself. Cubs fans have a horrible reputation for a reason. Opinions that defend a cry baby player plays into that reputation.

[VanMan]

Originally Posted by Bims That's hardly a point in your favor for being right. Cubs fans are homers who can't be unbias in their opinions. They are defending an adult male who threw his glove in the stands, and through a hissy fit over a call the ump got right. The bottom line is that their is no altercation if Zambrano simply acted like an adult. Zambrano initiated the incident the moment he decided to over the top argue a call the ump got CORRECT. The ump did nothing wrong except defend himself. Cubs fans have a horrible reputation for a reason. Opinions that defend a cry baby player plays into that reputation.

Bims:

Whether or not the umpire got the call correct is not at issue here. In the heat of the moment, players and managers argue calls all the time, correct or not. Z thought Morgan was out at the plate. It was a bang-bang play. Through the benefit of replay, yes, we know the play was correctly called safe, but that's beyond the point. The point is Carlson further escalated the incident by bumping into Zambrano, not the other way around. Again, Zambrano was suspended, but not for bumping into Carlson, but for throwing the ball toward the left-center field stands (only making it to the warning track) and the glove into the dugout fence (not the stands) and hitting the Gatorade fountain machine with a bat. But our arguments here is about Carlson's behavior, not Zambrano's. Carlson should not have moved into Zambrano to give himself a reason to throw out Zambrano. That's the point!

[Bims]

Originally Posted by VanMan The point is Carlson further escalated the incident by bumping into Zambrano

See, now this is where you are assuming/making stuff up. Carlos was going nuts before any bump took place. You are twisting things and making it look like Carlos went Nuts because he was bumped. Not only was Carlos going nuts before the bump, but he's never brought up the bump as motivation for his behavior. Carlos is not one to shy away from pointing out what set him off. He went nuts because he was out of control. The bump had NOTHING to do with it. You just totally made that up on your own.

[VanMan]

Originally Posted by Bims See, now this is where you are assuming/making stuff up. Carlos was going nuts before any bump took place. You are twisting things and making it look like Carlos went Nuts because he was bumped. Not only was Carlos going nuts before the bump, but he's never brought up the bump as motivation for his behavior. Carlos is not one to shy away from pointing out what set him off. He went nuts because he was out of control. The bump had NOTHING to do with it. You just totally made that up on your own.

But that's not the point of my argument. The umpire had NO BUSINESS leaning into Zambrano like that. He should have walked away from Zambrano. That's it!