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  #11  
Old Sep 14th 2007, 12:45 am
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Originally Posted by Bierboy View Post
Then let them have him...I prefer The Riot at leadoff. I've heard Soriano is Lou's buddy, so don't expect any changes.
Facts are facts. In Soriano's carrier he has done WAY better in the lead-off role. Most GM's would take a guy like Soriano over Pierre or just about any normal lead-off hitter because he can do just about anything at the plate, that changes the way the other team plays in more ways than one.

There IS a reason just about every team that was "Buying" in the offseason was after Soriano, that reason being he is as close to a true 5-tool player that has ever been on the open market. Riot has been good, but he has been more inconsistent than Soriano. Anyone arguing Riot is better than Soriano leading-off is on drugs.
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  #12  
Old Sep 14th 2007, 9:05 am
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I must be smoking dope. The idea that Soriano is better than TheRiot is not substained by the facts. What position did TheRiot fail at ? Selfish couldn't pull off center . He obviously can't hit down in the line up , the last outfield assist he had was because he bobbled the ball.
Selfish has 515 at bats in those he has 27 base on balls ,113 strike outs ,18 stolen bases and 5 caught stealings .

TheRiot has 485 at bats in that he has 47 base on balls , 46 strike outs , 26 stolen bases and 4 caught stealing .

Now if that doesn't show who is better lead off I am stoned to the gourd .

If you plan on using home runs to argue you add to my point.
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Originally Posted by NeifiPerezMVP2007 View Post
Facts are facts. In Soriano's carrier he has done WAY better in the lead-off role. Most GM's would take a guy like Soriano over Pierre or just about any normal lead-off hitter because he can do just about anything at the plate, that changes the way the other team plays in more ways than one.

There IS a reason just about every team that was "Buying" in the offseason was after Soriano, that reason being he is as close to a true 5-tool player that has ever been on the open market. Riot has been good, but he has been more inconsistent than Soriano. Anyone arguing Riot is better than Soriano leading-off is on drugs.
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  #13  
Old Sep 14th 2007, 9:30 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeEila's/rant View Post
I must be smoking dope. The idea that Soriano is better than TheRiot is not substained by the facts. What position did TheRiot fail at ? Selfish couldn't pull off center . He obviously can't hit down in the line up , the last outfield assist he had was because he bobbled the ball.
Selfish has 515 at bats in those he has 27 base on balls ,113 strike outs ,18 stolen bases and 5 caught stealings .

TheRiot has 485 at bats in that he has 47 base on balls , 46 strike outs , 26 stolen bases and 4 caught stealing .

Now if that doesn't show who is better lead off I am stoned to the gourd .

If you plan on using home runs to argue you add to my point.
I guess I'm sniffing the glue, too, because I agree with you. I will admit Soriano's career numbers are better, but that's just cause he's been around way longer than The Riot.
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  #14  
Old Sep 14th 2007, 10:33 am
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You know its funny.I know alot of you don't live in Illinios but if you did and listened to sports talk radio in Chicago you would hear the same argument pleading for Lou to move Fonzie down in the order.Heck ,even the Sun Times had a blip today about it saying its to late in the game to move him down and to ride the horse that got you there.I disagree whole heartedly.We ain't "there" yet and although the Fonz hit a leadoff homer lastnight ,how many times does he really do that?
If the Cub fail to make the playoffs or tank early in them then Lou and Hedry will have learned a valuble lesson at the fans and the teams expense.
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  #15  
Old Sep 14th 2007, 11:56 am
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Originally Posted by LeeEila's/rant View Post
Selfish couldn't pull off center.
You're right. That was very selfish of him to offer to move to center to try and help the Cubs out. You know what is even more selfish, the fact that he tries to argue his way off the DL. He must just want to be in the spotlight, b/c he obviously doesn't want to help the team out.

As far as homers go, I don't think you will see too many of them from Soriano if you move him down in the line-up. When he leads off the game he is more likely to see fastballs or have the pitcher hang a breaking ball early in the game. I'm not saying that Theriot would or would not make a better lead-off hitter, but the Cubs did struggle when Soriano was out and Theriot was leading off. I know it wasn't all on Theriot, but I just wanted to state a pointless fact.
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  #16  
Old Sep 14th 2007, 1:04 pm
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A-Ram would hit more homers at lead off too , jumping on first pitch fast ball. The pitcher is the only player that doesn't warm up in the position they play . There for they are most vunerable an the first inning. So I guess using your logic all of baseball should move their best slugger to lead off . Maybe we will see that someday but , I doubt it.
As for him saying he would play center , maybe he failed there because he wasn't really all that thrilled by the idea . In every negotiation there is give and take . Maybe it was " if you want lead off you need to play center " .
Soriano is not stupid and , he has a history of saying one thing for the public then another behind closed doors , as any agent would advise his player .
As for rushing back , is it more to get his record or help his team. I can not see how When nursing his injury , not being able to steal , run down fly balls , put on the hit and run helps his lead off position at all . But his bum leg doesn't hurt him towards his goal of hitting homers at lead off . Does it ? Wouldn't it make for a more likely benifit to both him and the team to bat down the order in front of another power hitter where it would not be critical to run hard ?

To me all this adds up to serving his own needs and not the team .
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Originally Posted by zulusierra View Post
You're right. That was very selfish of him to offer to move to center to try and help the Cubs out. You know what is even more selfish, the fact that he tries to argue his way off the DL. He must just want to be in the spotlight, b/c he obviously doesn't want to help the team out.

As far as homers go, I don't think you will see too many of them from Soriano if you move him down in the line-up. When he leads off the game he is more likely to see fastballs or have the pitcher hang a breaking ball early in the game. I'm not saying that Theriot would or would not make a better lead-off hitter, but the Cubs did struggle when Soriano was out and Theriot was leading off. I know it wasn't all on Theriot, but I just wanted to state a pointless fact.
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  #17  
Old Sep 14th 2007, 1:51 pm
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now isnt the time to change up the batting lineup...soriano's numbers arent amazing but theriot's numbers are pretty low... im affraid if we changed it now it would throw things off... and as far as lead-off if you wanna get technical he really only prolly leads off an inning once a game...

Theriot in his last ten games (6-37) .162, 2 runs, 0 HR's, 3 Rbi's, 4 bb, 3k's, 2 sb
Soriano in his last ten games (10-48) .208 6 runs, 5 HR's, 9Rbi's, 1 bb, 12 k's, 0 sb

don't hate me for disagreeing... i understand some points but i really don't think now is the time
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  #18  
Old Sep 14th 2007, 1:59 pm
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Originally Posted by LeeEila's/rant View Post
A-Ram would hit more homers at lead off too , jumping on first pitch fast ball. The pitcher is the only player that doesn't warm up in the position they play . There for they are most vunerable an the first inning. So I guess using your logic all of baseball should move their best slugger to lead off . Maybe we will see that someday but , I doubt it.
As for him saying he would play center , maybe he failed there because he wasn't really all that thrilled by the idea . In every negotiation there is give and take . Maybe it was " if you want lead off you need to play center " .
Soriano is not stupid and , he has a history of saying one thing for the public then another behind closed doors , as any agent would advise his player .
As for rushing back , is it more to get his record or help his team. I can not see how When nursing his injury , not being able to steal , run down fly balls , put on the hit and run helps his lead off position at all . But his bum leg doesn't hurt him towards his goal of hitting homers at lead off . Does it ? Wouldn't it make for a more likely benifit to both him and the team to bat down the order in front of another power hitter where it would not be critical to run hard ?

To me all this adds up to serving his own needs and not the team .
You will not let this topic die but still have failed to put the blame where it should be. Is Soriano selfish because he doesn't make the line up? Selfish is used umpteen times in every post but it has turned into a big circle and I still don't know ow Soriano is selfish. Maybe you should realize that Lou makes the line up and rightfully so becasue thats what he gets paid to do. Soriano takes the field and bats where LOU puts him in the line up how does this make him selfish? He is doing what he gets paid to do not make the line up. This has been a topic since before the baseball season and will continue to be, but the bottom line is as long as Lou is at the helm it seems Soriano will be leading off accept it.
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  #19  
Old Sep 14th 2007, 4:35 pm
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I dont know the man personally and I dont know what goes on in the clubhouse so Im not going to say he is selfish. As much as I would like to see him further down in the order in an RBI spot, I cant look past the instant offense he provides. Plus it seems that at least once every game the 8 and 9 spots somehow get on base with 2 outs. Personally I would rather a legitimate HR threat at the plate in that situation than Theriot. Nothing against Theriot, he has done a phenomenal job this year but I'm comfortable with him there.
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  #20  
Old Sep 14th 2007, 4:36 pm
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And also, in those number you posted with the BBs, Ks and SBs, how many came when leading off an inning?
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