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  #11  
Old May 11th 2008, 11:38 am
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Looks like Lou will not move him, but he should be in the middle of the lineup.
  #12  
Old May 11th 2008, 11:56 am
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Originally Posted by ARamfan View Post
I have to agree w/ you, Drock. It was 1 good game. And like I've said before, I don't necessarily want him out of the lineup, he just doesn't belong in the leadoff spot. Bat him 6th! Lee, Ram, Fuk, Sori 3-4-5-6, sounds good to me.
It seems we are the majority, but it doesn't matter what we think. DOH!
Soriano is a homerun threat every time he steps in the batter's box. I just don't understand why leaving him in the leadoff spot is benefiting the team. With his ability to hit the homer, logic tells all of us that we can get more run production if he batted further down in the order. I think Soriano is the only one who thinks he should be batting leadoff. It's a shame really, but if he can get back to getting on base more often and stealing bases then i would gladly accept him at leadoff. But as of right now i don't think he fits in that spot.

Now let me contradict myself,
The one thing that benefits us with him leading off right now, is that we have had decent production from the bottom of the order. With the 6,7, and 8 hitters getting on base, Soriano at leadoff could actually be beneficial. But that is not the norm and we can't expect the bottom of the order to produce on a consistent basis.
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  #13  
Old May 11th 2008, 12:22 pm
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Quote from Drockvb........."Now let me contradict myself,
The one thing that benefits us with him leading off right now, is that we have had decent production from the bottom of the order. With the 6,7, and 8 hitters getting on base, Soriano at leadoff could actually be beneficial. But that is not the norm and we can't expect the bottom of the order to produce on a consistent basis."

I also thought about that, Sori will leadoff maybe once in the game, then it depends, but with Reed Johnson at the 8th spot, he gets on, the pitcher bunts and moves him and then Sori can bring him in.
  #14  
Old May 11th 2008, 12:25 pm
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Originally Posted by cubbyfanforever View Post
Now let me contradict myself,
The one thing that benefits us with him leading off right now, is that we have had decent production from the bottom of the order. With the 6,7, and 8 hitters getting on base, Soriano at leadoff could actually be beneficial. But that is not the norm and we can't expect the bottom of the order to produce on a consistent basis.


He can only lead-off once every game. He can drive in some runs, but hes not like A-Ram or Lee.
  #15  
Old May 11th 2008, 12:56 pm
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This is a bit deep and statty but:

(from Rob McQuown) http://www.baseballdigestdaily.com/b...=457&Itemid=39 for the spiel leading into the data

Quote:
Table 1: Plate appearances by lineup position -

Leadoff hitters average 3.01 plate appearances (PA) with the bases empty, and 1.80 with men on base.
#6 hitters average 2.29 plate appearances (PA) with the bases empty, and 1.97 with men on base.


So, if a player is used in the #6 hole, they will have 9.4% more plate appearances with runners on base. Somehow, every time a member of the media talks about this, it sounds like they believe this is more like 100%. They probably do, but it's a lie...and smart listeners won't buy it.

Table 2: Home run values by lineup position -

Home runs hit by leadoff hitters average 1.291 runs.
Home runs hit by #6 hitters average 1.411 runs.


Another 9% advantage to batting 6th (9.3% in this case). More lies being propagated by the media here, assuming that these are all 2-run and 3-run homers!


Table 2: Home run values by lineup position (modified by PA) -

Each HR/600 PA by a leadoff hitter is worth an average of 1.421 runs (per “season”)
Each HR/600 PA by a #6 hitter is worth an average of 1.376 runs (per “season”)


Now, how can THIS be true?! Well, the Table 3 results come from combining Table 1 with Table 2, and takes into account the fact that a leadoff hitter gets many more PA over the course of a season than a #6 hitter (almost 13% - see Table 1, which shows that leadoff hitters get 4.81 PA/game, while #6 hitters get only 4.26 PA/game). So, while the ability to hit homers is worth (approximately) 9% less to a leadoff hitter than it is to a #6 hitter, said leadoff hitter gets 13% more PA, and the difference works out to a 3.3% advantage to batting said player in the leadoff slot.
see also by the same author @ http://www.baseballdigestdaily.com/b...=399&Itemid=31

This little pa/game nugget is also why pitcher any higher than 8 is contentious.
  #16  
Old May 11th 2008, 1:13 pm
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As for theriot: he's having a great spell right now - weirdly, he LEADS mlb in singles (iso .089!) and also caught steals - but his BABIP is pretty high, though he does have a high career mark and BABIP isnt great for batters so I wouldnt put all my eggs in that basket. He's playing well and long may that continue
  #17  
Old May 11th 2008, 4:18 pm
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" .....This little pa/game nugget is also why pitcher any higher than 8 is contentious ..... "

Unless that pitcher is Babe Ruth. (Or for that matter Rick Ankeil. There have been some exceptionally good hitting pitchers through the years. The Cubs and St louis seem to get more than their share.)

Thanks for the post and link: interesting stuff.

Soriano always seems to end up with similar and decent numbers in spite of his times off and his little slumps. I'm holding out for him to burst into fire very soon and go on a 500 AB tear to end the season. I hope his 4 - 5 was a sign; we're just about 1/4 into the season.

A really hot Soriano would be wonderful.
  #18  
Old May 11th 2008, 6:27 pm
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Oh geeze here we go now HeyHey is on his high horse and everyone should bow down and kiss the ground he walks on. Get a clue and quit being such a hypocrite!!!! It was just a few days ago when I remember logging on and laughing at the fact of all the threads and posts thatHeyHey made that was nothing but negative for example, "Is Dero Burnt?" "When Will" (St Louis fall on their face) "Ok now what" these are all threads this hypocrit posted that in fact if anyone else would have chosen to speak about he would have tried to rip them up one side and down the other and we would have heard the infamous "it's still early" which seems to be his best defense. This is gotta be the biggest example of Mr. Internet tough guy from behind his keyboard. Well keep pecking at your keys and opening your mouth for non sense and confirming you are a hypocrite. Its people like this that have pushed many of the original good posters away, keep up your internet toughness big guy!!!
Hypocrite? I never bashed Sori or The Riot. You better read the post again.
  #19  
Old May 11th 2008, 6:35 pm
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Originally Posted by Sheffield_&_Waveland View Post
Oh geeze here we go now HeyHey is on his high horse and everyone should bow down and kiss the ground he walks on. Get a clue and quit being such a hypocrite!!!! It was just a few days ago when I remember logging on and laughing at the fact of all the threads and posts thatHeyHey made that was nothing but negative for example, "Is Dero Burnt?" "When Will" (St Louis fall on their face) "Ok now what" these are all threads this hypocrit posted that in fact if anyone else would have chosen to speak about he would have tried to rip them up one side and down the other and we would have heard the infamous "it's still early" which seems to be his best defense. This is gotta be the biggest example of Mr. Internet tough guy from behind his keyboard. Well keep pecking at your keys and opening your mouth for non sense and confirming you are a hypocrite. Its people like this that have pushed many of the original good posters away, keep up your internet toughness big guy!!!
Sounds like sour milk to me. I went back and read my Dero thread and I never bashed him either. I did question the pitching and I still do but Lou has made some moves and that's the beauty of this team. Depth. Not to mention that those posts were made during their worst drubbing of the year. Yeah I was frustrated so what?

So tell me Sheff, Are you one of the Sori/Theriot bashers from oh not to long ago?
  #20  
Old May 11th 2008, 8:22 pm
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Originally Posted by HEYHEY View Post
Sounds like sour milk to me. I went back and read my Dero thread and I never bashed him either. I did question the pitching and I still do but Lou has made some moves and that's the beauty of this team. Depth. Not to mention that those posts were made during their worst drubbing of the year. Yeah I was frustrated so what?

So tell me Sheff, Are you one of the Sori/Theriot bashers from oh not to long ago?
As a matter of fact no I have not posted on many threads in the last six months because I have felt as many of the others have and this site is slowly turning into nothing but people bashing other peoples opinions. And you just seem to be one of the main players that seem to like turning everything into an argument and a name calling contest. I posted these few threads as a small sample size to make a point. You have constantly been the person here trying to coincide with every move this team makes and when someone expresses their opinion we hear, "back away from the ledge it's early" So I find it quite humerous that not only are you worried about the Cardinals 30 games into the season but it seemed you were the one ready to take the leap just the other day which in fact makes you the hypocrite. I also find it comical that you post a thread calling people out and asking where they are, when in fact Soriano has done absolutely nothing for 34 games and has one good game. Seems a bit premature to me and I know for a fact that you would have been on here trying to use your best slam at someone else had the tables been turned. Maybe when Soriano can produce on a consistent basis (believe it or not his contract is large enough he should be producing like that daily, not once every 40 games or so) you will have some ground to stand on.
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