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  #11  
Old Jan 12th 2008, 2:47 pm
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The whole "Addition by subtraction" is completely overrated. And That's alot of optimism with 4 question marks on the offense.

The majority of the Brewers hitters are a good bet to significantly improve.

You can look at Braun/Fielder has overperformed. But on the other side, Ted Lilly more than likely enjoyed a career year, Zambrano has regressed for the third straight year, and the Cubs don't have a good answer for 40% of their rotation. Only Rich Hill is a good bet to put up the same/better #'s next year.
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  #12  
Old Jan 12th 2008, 2:52 pm
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Originally Posted by NeifiPerezMVP2007 View Post
I'm confused .
Think about it

Both teams made about the same amount of upgrades and they only finished the season a couple games apart, so to say the Brewers are weak is a very impartial statement, especially based with 40% of the Cubs rotation and 50% of the hitters being question marks coming into the season.

Adding Cameron considerably improves the Brewers defense, probably the weakest portion of their team last year.
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  #13  
Old Jan 12th 2008, 8:06 pm
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Originally Posted by Bockstock View Post
Think about it

Both teams made about the same amount of upgrades and they only finished the season a couple games apart, so to say the Brewers are weak is a very impartial statement, especially based with 40% of the Cubs rotation and 50% of the hitters being question marks coming into the season.

Adding Cameron considerably improves the Brewers defense, probably the weakest portion of their team last year.
1. Both teams made about the same amount of upgrades: The Brewers last season were ahead the majority of the season, they fell apart because of a WEAK ROTATION AND BULLPEN. Give me reasons adding Gagne (Injured like clockwork) and Mota to the bullpen is better than Cordero (Injured much less often then Cordero) who pitched lights out at Miller Park?

2. Jenkins being replaced with Cameron is a MARGINAL upgrade, because Cameron is a better defender in CF, but he had a nasty .328 OBP and 160 K's in 151 games last season, Jenkins had a .319 OBP and 116 K's in 132 games mainly because Yost never played him routinely (From what my Brewers friends say). Ask yourself why he didn't sign nearly after Jones and Hunter signed? Because hes not that good anymore

Camerons carrier stats: Games Played 1560 .341 OBP .445 SLG .251 AVG

Jenkins carrier stats: Games Played 1234 .347 OBP .496 SLG .277 AVG

3. Are you serious? How do you figure 50% of the hitters and 40% of the rotation are "question marks" for the Cubs? Last I looked the only big question marks for the Cubs lineup is at CF. Hows that 4 of 8? As for the rotation, last I heard Lou said, Z, Lilly, Hill, Dempster, Marquis, and Marshall are in the running. So, before you call my statement a "impartial statement", look at the facts and let them sink in.
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  #14  
Old Jan 12th 2008, 8:14 pm
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Originally Posted by Bockstock View Post
The whole "Addition by subtraction" is completely overrated. And That's alot of optimism with 4 question marks on the offense.
LOL!! Yeah its overrated, Jones wasn't a distraction and all the other players Hendry dumped were great players. Right. Your right, I'm optimistic, my team won the NL Central division and added a high OBP right fielder, and might make a impact trade soon, but all that does is make more question marks, right? Give me a break, adding 3 players with drug history (or drug accusations in Gagnes case) does not frighten me one bit, Cameron can't take coke or any stimulants now (not that they worked for him last season when he tested positive for banned stimulants) and Mota can't take roids anymore, so I expect a drop-off from already average MLB carriers.
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  #15  
Old Jan 13th 2008, 4:20 am
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You got to feel sorry for Hall, it seems like he is moved every season. Were they not desperately looking for a left handed bat in that lineup though? and they go out and get a right handed bat. Its not a bad deal but it has hardly got me quaking.
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  #16  
Old Jan 13th 2008, 3:02 pm
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You got to feel sorry for Hall, it seems like he is moved every season. Were they not desperately looking for a left handed bat in that lineup though? and they go out and get a right handed bat. Its not a bad deal but it has hardly got me quaking.
I agree. Hall is the only Brewers player I like so it kinda makes me mad, but hes good at 3rd. Cameron is not that great of a signing.
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  #17  
Old Jan 13th 2008, 3:06 pm
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1. Both teams made about the same amount of upgrades: The Brewers last season were ahead the majority of the season, they fell apart because of a WEAK ROTATION AND BULLPEN. Give me reasons adding Gagne (Injured like clockwork) and Mota to the bullpen is better than Cordero (Injured much less often then Cordero) who pitched lights out at Miller Park?
Bullpens are a crapshoot. And you don't think drastically improving defense at 3b and cf is going tohelp their pitching?? Braun's defense was historically bad. The Cubs starting pitching is not significantly better than the Brewers as it stands right now.

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2. Jenkins being replaced with Cameron is a MARGINAL upgrade, because Cameron is a better defender in CF, but he had a nasty .328 OBP and 160 K's in 151 games last season, Jenkins had a .319 OBP and 116 K's in 132 games mainly because Yost never played him routinely (From what my Brewers friends say). Ask yourself why he didn't sign nearly after Jones and Hunter signed? Because hes not that good anymore

Camerons carrier stats: Games Played 1560 .341 OBP .445 SLG .251 AVG

Jenkins carrier stats: Games Played 1234 .347 OBP .496 SLG .277 AVG
Duh Jenkins was a part time player because he is absolutely terrible against LHP, and his defense was bad enough to only make him a part-time player. And strikeouts #'s are a terrible way to evaluate a hitter.

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3. Are you serious? How do you figure 50% of the hitters and 40% of the rotation are "question marks" for the Cubs? Last I looked the only big question marks for the Cubs lineup is at CF. Hows that 4 of 8? As for the rotation, last I heard Lou said, Z, Lilly, Hill, Dempster, Marquis, and Marshall are in the running. So, before you call my statement a "impartial statement", look at the facts and let them sink in.
HEre are the facts about the offense

Cubs 2007 OPS by position
RF.795 (NL rank 6/16)
C .673 (727 without Koyie Hill, NL rank 14/16, 5/16 sans Koyie Hill)
SS .640 (Theriot .672, NL rank 16/16)
CF .710 (Pie .613, NL rank 13/16)

There are the Cubs weak spots on offense. Thus, Signing Fukudome (coming off elbow surgery by the way) is the least-significant improvement in terms of increasing your offense when compared to the gains the Cubs could have made by improving at SS or CF. Soto is the best bet to improve offensive output at his position, and if he would have gotten at-bats over Koyie Hill the output would have been alot better.. Obviously Fukudome's speed in the outfield, glove, and arm are an awesome improvement over last year.

Also, adding the Fukudome simply for OBP is only a marginal improvement as well. By position, Cub RFers had the top OBP in the NL.

Like I've said, barring any offensive improvements from here on ot the Cubs best bet to get a better offense is for Theriot/Pie/Soto to all perform at the league average for their positions, which is no sure bet for THeriot and Pie.
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  #18  
Old Jan 13th 2008, 3:14 pm
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Originally Posted by NeifiPerezMVP2007 View Post
LOL!! Yeah its overrated, Jones wasn't a distraction and all the other players Hendry dumped were great players. Right. Your right, I'm optimistic, my team won the NL Central division and added a high OBP right fielder, and might make a impact trade soon, but all that does is make more question marks, right? Give me a break, adding 3 players with drug history (or drug accusations in Gagnes case) does not frighten me one bit, Cameron can't take coke or any stimulants now (not that they worked for him last season when he tested positive for banned stimulants) and Mota can't take roids anymore, so I expect a drop-off from already average MLB carriers.
Yea, addition by subtraction worked after 2004 and 2005.

I don't care about a guys history/characters. THe Cubs haven't won a WS in 100 years, just get the best players. Apparently you have to have some kind of celebrity bowling tournament or something like that to be considered a "true" cubs.

The Scapegoating the goes on with this team is hilarious, and the fanbase buying into it is pathetic. Of course alot of it is fed and blown out of proportion by the media.
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  #19  
Old Jan 14th 2008, 12:05 pm
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Originally Posted by Bockstock View Post
Yea, addition by subtraction worked after 2004 and 2005.

I don't care about a guys history/characters. THe Cubs haven't won a WS in 100 years, just get the best players. Apparently you have to have some kind of celebrity bowling tournament or something like that to be considered a "true" cubs.

The Scapegoating the goes on with this team is hilarious, and the fanbase buying into it is pathetic. Of course alot of it is fed and blown out of proportion by the media.
Thats a good point, but Sosa was a clubhouse problem, and once he left, Lee had a breakout season. I agree that the scapegoating has gotten out of hand the past few years (starting with S.Bartman) and the sports media plays into the hands of curses and Bartman, it does no good of any kind. I like J. Jones but you can't discount the misguided fans that hated him, they are a LOUD minority.
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  #20  
Old Jan 14th 2008, 12:36 pm
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Originally Posted by NeifiPerezMVP2007 View Post
I like J. Jones but you can't discount the misguided fans that hated him, they are a LOUD minority.
Gotcha

To get to the point of my extremely rambling post, I like what Fukudome will probably bring to team and in the terms of getting the best hitter with giving up the least (long-term deals, draft picks, prospects) the Cubs did a good job, but the margin of improvement is not at significant as if the Cubs would have gotten a similar caliber player at SS or CF.

Since I'm an advocate of playing Pie everyday in CF and believe he can improve substantially this year, I guess I would have advocated improving at SS above all else at the beginning of the off-season (at least as far as hitters are concerned).
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