fogpog.com - Staying True To Cubbie Blue
 
Chicago Cubs
Schedule
Standings
Player Stats
Roster
Depth Chart
Wrigley Field
History
2013 Standings
National League Central
TEAM W L PCT GB
St. Louis 97 65 .599 -
Pittsburgh 94 68 .580 3.0
Cincinnati 90 72 .556 7.0
Milwaukee 74 88 .457 23.0
CUBS 66 96 .407 31.0
- End of Regular Season -
Recommended Sites
Media Friends:
AskMen.com
CBS SportsLine
Chicago Bears
Chicago Bulls
Chicago Cubs
ESPN
FOX Sports
Maxim
MLB.com
Sports Illustrated
Stuff
Site Friends:
1060 West
Chicago Cubs Blog
CNLBCB
Ivy Chat
Len & Bob's Blog
MLB Rumors
fogpog Feeds
Subscribe
RSS 2.0
RSS 1.0
Java
Add to My Yahoo!
Link To Us:
fogpog.com - Staying True To Cubbie Blue

Welcome to fogpog, the best place to talk about all things related to Chicago Cubs baseball. To gain full access to fogpog you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
  • Participate in our forums and browse from over 75,000 posts.
  • Communicate privately with other Cubs fans from around the world.
  • Create your own custom profile filled with many different features.
  • Gain access to our free arcade providing an assortment of fun and challenging games.
All this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact the fogpog Staff.

Go Back   fogpog > Cubs Baseball > The Bleachers
CUBS Tickets Gallery Arcade FP Store Donate
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old Jun 24th 2011, 8:09 am
Bockstock's Avatar
Bockstock Bockstock is offline
Hall Of Famer
 
My Mood:

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,338
Quote:
Ahh , but offencive stats are holey and true , if they make your point ?
The offensive stats are based off of actual tangible results: plate appearnaces, walks, extra base hits, etc.. If you don't understand how defensive metrics or don't understand how are derived and differences between the offensive and defensive metrics, I suggest you don't use them. Like any developing statistics field, defensive metrics have only just been developed and are constantly being improved.

Quote:
The metrics people are taking a beating this year , Oakland collapse and flip over to more conventional scouting to Adam Dunn and other stat donkeys failing .
umm, Lee I don't think you understand the point.... the A's don't try to compete every year, they don't have the financial resources to do so. In fact, nobody said that 'moneyball' is an end all baseball philosophy except for it's critics.
__________________
Whether it comes from [the media] or even comes from some fans, who are deservedly upset at a given point, it's really just noise. If we let it affect our decision making, shame on us
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old Jun 24th 2011, 8:12 am
Bockstock's Avatar
Bockstock Bockstock is offline
Hall Of Famer
 
My Mood:

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,338
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeEila's/rant View Post
Hey mister 87 wins , the same flaws in the defensive stats are in the offensive stats. The main problem is it views hitting from a vacumn and does not take in other considerations as in what order , who is hitting in front or behind the number of pitches seen before the hitter approaches the plate.
Except these stastics have proven to be correlated significantly to a team's overall offensive performance because they relate to so many other things.

Working the count,taking walks = getting better pitches to hit = longer innings = getting higher pitch counts earlier in the game = getting to teams mediocre middle relievers. Just like the Cubs 2008 offense.

Really, its' pretty simple math. The Red Sox are executing it brilliantly this year.
__________________
Whether it comes from [the media] or even comes from some fans, who are deservedly upset at a given point, it's really just noise. If we let it affect our decision making, shame on us
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old Jun 24th 2011, 8:17 am
LeeEila's/rant's Avatar
LeeEila's/rant LeeEila's/rant is offline
Hall Of Famer
 
My Mood:

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Metamora
Posts: 2,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bockstock View Post
Except these stastics have proven to be correlated significantly to a team's overall offensive performance because they relate to so many other things.

Working the count,taking walks = getting better pitches to hit = longer innings = getting higher pitch counts earlier in the game = getting to teams mediocre middle relievers. Just like the Cubs 2008 offense.

Really, its' pretty simple math. The Red Sox are executing it brilliantly this year.
Simple math that ignores baseball approach and traditions in pitching.
When they start subtracting in calculating OBP for a NL 8th hitter , I will have more faith in them.

You are dead ass wrong if you think they are using it alone in their system. They had the guy ( I don't recall his name ) from the Red Sox on the radio , one of the founders of baseball perspectives , I am sure you know who i am talking about , and he said " anyone who uses metrics as a single evaluation of player production is a damn fool " . He went on to say they use it to back up and double check on what traditional scouting tells them. It is only supplemental and not the main factor.

It is obvious that you are majoring in statistics and are pressing to increase the relevance of your chosen field and will argue to the death to make sure of it. You may even be working on your doctorate thesis on the speculation of becoming a baseball expert using mathematical calculations and never once actually observing a game.
I have heard of odder thesis . My cousin earned his on Elvis and his ascension to a religious deity. He recorded stories of the ' ghost of Elvis " being credited with saving lives to saving peoples marriages .
__________________
Christian Morgenstern : And thus , in his considered view ; What did not suit - could not be true
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old Jun 26th 2011, 1:44 am
Bockstock's Avatar
Bockstock Bockstock is offline
Hall Of Famer
 
My Mood:

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,338
Learn to read before you start insulting others.

I said in this thread or one of the other recents ones statistics are not an end-all approach, but ignoring them completeley is a dead-end approach. Hendry is a 'traditional scout'. How is that working out??

I really don't give a rats ass what you postulate my field is, you'll always be wrong.

Why are you even bringing up personal insults anyway??? You're as bad as you claim Banks is with that last paragraph. I could give a rats ass about what third party strangers think about my baseball IQ. Pretty pathetic.
__________________
Whether it comes from [the media] or even comes from some fans, who are deservedly upset at a given point, it's really just noise. If we let it affect our decision making, shame on us
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old Jun 26th 2011, 7:36 am
LeeEila's/rant's Avatar
LeeEila's/rant LeeEila's/rant is offline
Hall Of Famer
 
My Mood:

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Metamora
Posts: 2,531
Quote:
If you don't understand how defensive metrics or don't understand how are derived and differences between the offensive and defensive metrics, I suggest you don't use them
Who tossed the first insult here ???

Ok to call me stupid i guess .
__________________
Christian Morgenstern : And thus , in his considered view ; What did not suit - could not be true
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old Jun 27th 2011, 10:48 am
LeeEila's/rant's Avatar
LeeEila's/rant LeeEila's/rant is offline
Hall Of Famer
 
My Mood:

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Metamora
Posts: 2,531
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=2640

This is an article that explains what I have been trying to say is my problem with some offensive stats .

It is much more intelligently presented than my uncomprehending mind could ever verbalize .
__________________
Christian Morgenstern : And thus , in his considered view ; What did not suit - could not be true
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old Jun 28th 2011, 9:24 am
AceCubbie's Avatar
AceCubbie AceCubbie is offline
Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeEila's/rant View Post
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=2640

This is an article that explains what I have been trying to say is my problem with some offensive stats .

It is much more intelligently presented than my uncomprehending mind could ever verbalize .
Some good points in that article; kind of surprising to see it's from seven years ago.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old Jun 30th 2011, 8:16 am
LeeEila's/rant's Avatar
LeeEila's/rant LeeEila's/rant is offline
Hall Of Famer
 
My Mood:

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Metamora
Posts: 2,531
I would put Campana on the bus with Blake DeWitt , with Cubs that can't play baseball.

When Quadimodo put him in center , I was screaming at my TV. Why not put him in left and leave Reed in center ?
__________________
Christian Morgenstern : And thus , in his considered view ; What did not suit - could not be true
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old Jun 30th 2011, 2:59 pm
BigZ38's Avatar
BigZ38 BigZ38 is offline
MVP
 
My Mood:
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: 279.79 miles from Wrigley
Posts: 1,475
Send a message via AIM to BigZ38
I haven't been on this board in a long time and this thread is an example why, too much personal bashing. This place used to be fun to come to, but now everyone bashes everyone. Bockstock at least keeps it together and doesn't have to go into full out rage mode when talking about something. In terms of this thread, Blake DeWitt, didn't realize he was the same age as Barney, I think he can produce for this team, not like we're winning so why not let him play and get some AB's.
__________________
"You guys better hurry up and ask me quick, because one more Bloody Mary and you're not going to understand anything I say." -Lou Piniella at the Cubs Convention.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old Jul 1st 2011, 5:02 pm
Bockstock's Avatar
Bockstock Bockstock is offline
Hall Of Famer
 
My Mood:

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,338
since this has turned into the hodgepodge, everyone spill their guts and take their @#$@# out on others thread I thought I would post this here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...rss=rss_sports

Apparently the Marlins (a team that knows something about scouting and talent) drafted him in the top 10 last year. could be another late round steal for the Cubs like McNutt, Struck, and Beeler
__________________
Whether it comes from [the media] or even comes from some fans, who are deservedly upset at a given point, it's really just noise. If we let it affect our decision making, shame on us
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Still a lot left to play SKIPPER 11 The Bleachers 0 Sep 21st 2007 10:57 am
LOOK TO THE LEFT! ryno4ever The Bleachers 1 Aug 18th 2007 10:48 am
Big Z left out again SKIPPER 11 The Bleachers 2 Jul 8th 2007 8:52 am
Soriano back to left field. mickeyrom51 The Bleachers 22 Apr 23rd 2007 3:44 pm
Just 3 Days Left!!! scuba The Bleachers 1 Jan 29th 2007 3:29 pm


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 7:15 am.



Copyright © 2006-2013 fogpog.com. All rights reserved.
Chicago Cubs logos Copyright © 2013 Major League Baseball and the Chicago Cubs.
Powered by: vBulletin v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.