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  #1  
Old Nov 4th 2009, 4:39 pm
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Ted Lilly has surgery, may miss beginning of seaso

Pitch counts for Lilly's last 3 games (well after the cubs were out of the playoff hunt):

9/30 - 115
9/18 - 110
9/13 - 119

I bet they still won't offer Harden arbitration, that selfish bastard who shut himself down down the stretch and "bailed" on his teammates. He should have been out there throwing 110+ pitches (IN FIVE INNINGS LOL) in meaningless games like Lilly was.
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  #2  
Old Nov 4th 2009, 4:55 pm
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Quote:
I bet they still won't offer Harden arbitration, that selfish bastard who shut himself down down the stretch and "bailed" on his teammates.
How do you mean?
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  #3  
Old Nov 4th 2009, 7:54 pm
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Originally Posted by thisistheday View Post
How do you mean?
Harden asked to be shut down in the later half of September when the cubs were out of the picture and the Cubs consented. There were alot of people (including quite a few on here) that ragged on him for 'quitting on his teammates' and bunch of crap like that (this happened a week or so after the Bradley suspension).

Wells and Lilly are two guys that should have been shut down as well IMO.
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  #4  
Old Nov 5th 2009, 8:46 am
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Harden is an over-rated pitcher. He has two pitches and is worthless if he doesn't have everything working for him. He reminds me of A.J. Burnett. He is good when everything works but can't adapt and make what pitches he has work for him. If the Cubs can get him for what they paid last year it would not be that bad but , the idea of throwing ace money at him would not be feasible when you have so many other holes that needs to be addressed.
Didn't they keep skipping his starts ? Do you think maybe he kept insisting to start ? You don't wake up one morning with a bad arm. Every pitcher pitches with some pain , it hurts to pitch and you have no idea if the pain is normal or due to injury until they get in there and look . I really doubt if three games caused the injury to Lilly . If that was the case we should have seen CC's arm fall off in the seventh inning.
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Old Nov 5th 2009, 11:53 am
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Work Less: Produce More - For somebody else.

" .... Harden...has two pitches ..... "

Yet another reason that he should have long since been moved to the bullpen - eventually some smart GM / Field Manager will. Harden's two pitches are, on the other hand, "devastating". An extreme fastball and a circle change (I guess he has abandoned the split-finger he once occasionally threw and I don't really know if he ever throws his slider which was in the class of former Reds pitcher (and Cubs and others) Danny Jackson). That's the kind of stuff to mow people down for short periods and that's exactly what he does. As a starter he gets double digit Ks per 9 innings (I think it was 10.9 / 9 in 2009). These number tend to go up as a closer. I honestly believe he could post numbers around 12 - 14 Ks / 9 as a closer (or set-up man). He should working 60 to 80 appearances per season and 40 to 60 pitches per appearance.

I think it's still true that Harden has never actually been injured. This isn't to say he hasn't been on the DL or hasn't had surgery he has; both have been to attempt to prevent an injury. Harden's problem tend to be around his torso and shoulder: stress and strains. Stress areas accentuated by his extreme hard throwing.

He won't play for the Cubs next year but somebody is going to turn him into the next (ex-Cub) Dennis Eckersley.

Notice all the references to strain and fatigue:

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotr...l/rich_harden/

" ...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...type=printable

http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/new...=.jsp&c_id=oak

http://forums.rotoworld.com/index.php?showtopic=775

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sport...ch-Harden.html
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  #6  
Old Nov 5th 2009, 12:35 pm
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" .... Harden...has two pitches ..... "

Yet another reason that he should have long since been moved to the bullpen - eventually some smart GM / Field Manager will.
Not if he throws his pitches better than anyone else. There's been enough pitch-f/x analysis done on his changeup to show how effective it is.

Replacing 70 innings of Harden (by moving him to the bullpen) with 70 innings of a Tom Gorzellany/Jeff Samardzija-type makes your team worse. Harden averaged more innings per start than any of Marshall, Gorzellany, or Samardzija. The team will be decidely worse, both in the bullpen and the rotation.

The cubs were idiots this year. Randy Wells surpassed his career IP by almost 80 innings. He's as likely candidate for injury/extended dead arm next year as anyone else in the rotation. Some of Jimbo's quotes are quite disheartening. Its quite clear the cubs aren't going to make any moves to be on par with teams like LAD or Philadelphia.
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Old Nov 11th 2009, 11:39 am
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Gorz and Sammy will be our 4 and 5 pitchers while Lilly is recovering. When he returns, whichever pitcher performs better with stay in the rotation when Lilly returns. Much like with the Wells and Marshall episode from last year
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Old Nov 11th 2009, 11:44 am
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Sammy is Samard#$@&zija (that's worse than Grudzielanek)?
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  #9  
Old Nov 11th 2009, 11:46 am
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yea, Sammy (not slammin... btw have you seen him lately?) is Samardzija. I always butcher it....... but I think I got it right this time around
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  #10  
Old Nov 11th 2009, 12:06 pm
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I don't see how you can sign Harden and not expand the bullpen due to his short range. So if you sign Harden at $12 million then have to keep an extra guy in the bullpen at $3 million then your total cost for his season is $15 million and he is not worth it.
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