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  #11  
Old Jan 30th 2008, 12:34 pm
weeghman weeghman is offline
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Originally Posted by Bockstock View Post
Yea, but the point is that all the Cubs players you just mentioned

A) have to be on the 40-man active
B) are older, closer to FA, and have less of a ceiling than the Mariners (except Hill obviously)

So what the O's are trading for is 1/2 guys that can be on the active roster, and 3/4 guys that will be ready in a couple of years.

Don't forget, the O's already did a 5/6:1 (can't remember) deal for Tejada. They don't have unlimited space on their active roster to stash the guys rumored to be in the Cubs deal.

From a pure-talent standpoint, you're probably right in that there would be as much, if not more talent in the Cubs deal. From a value standpoint for a team looking to be competive in 2-3 years, the Mariners deal suits that purpose better.
I think what makes the O's look really dumb is, IMHO, the deal offered to them by the Mariners is significantly better than the one the Twins excepted for Santana. The Met's didn't even have to part with their top prospect (Mike Pelfrey), per Baseball America. It is mind boggling to me. Either the twins bent themselves over and violated themselves with their trade or Angelos and the orioles are sitting on their hands wondering the stitches on a baseball are red. Maybe both. It is very confusing to me. I know it is much more complicated than I will understand but I would think that Angelos would look at what is on the table for Bedard and then look at the 2 + prospects and 2 marginal prospect the Mets gave up for Santana and sign off on the deal. He has continued to prove that he knows nothing about baseball and makes me glad I am not an O's fan.
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  #12  
Old Jan 30th 2008, 2:59 pm
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4 prospects for santana still feels like alot to me... he has to get a new contract for one... but he will only play every 5th day... where a guy liek roberts will probably be your lead off guy, speed, and left handed bat you need for 90% of yoru games
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  #13  
Old Jan 30th 2008, 3:59 pm
weeghman weeghman is offline
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4 prospects for santana still feels like alot to me... he has to get a new contract for one... but he will only play every 5th day... where a guy liek roberts will probably be your lead off guy, speed, and left handed bat you need for 90% of yoru games
Old adage, Pitching wins championships.
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  #14  
Old Jan 30th 2008, 4:58 pm
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none of the prospects the Mets gave up are ranked anywhere as cant miss prospects. They are good prospects, but not cant miss. They didnt give up that much to get him.
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  #15  
Old Jan 30th 2008, 7:05 pm
weeghman weeghman is offline
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none of the prospects the Mets gave up are ranked anywhere as cant miss prospects. They are good prospects, but not cant miss. They didnt give up that much to get him.
I guess that is what I am trying to say. Adam Jones by himself has more value than 3 of the 4 Mets players combined. Although I don't think the Twins were going to trade him within the AL, the Mariners have to be a lil' peeved they didn't try for Santana with a similar to what they are proposing for Bedard.
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  #16  
Old Jan 30th 2008, 7:08 pm
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im sure alot of NL teams are as well
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  #17  
Old Jan 30th 2008, 9:03 pm
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Agreed weeghman, the O's are a joke. Angleos is stalling again with Bedard.
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  #18  
Old Jan 30th 2008, 10:01 pm
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" ....I personally think we should be done with the Orioles.... "

Amen! For a while I've now been thinking it's a game; Angelos is just playing all this for publicity. If he is he sure has been successful, his team has dominated the baseball "news" for quite some time now. And now I hear that Bedard (at least) may just re-sign with Baltimore. The trade talk being a sham. Can you imagine?: a lawyer indulging in self-promotion ! That's out of left field.

That is if all the trade talk involving Baltimore isn't just a media creation to begin with just to have something to talk about that isn't steroid related.
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  #19  
Old Jan 31st 2008, 9:00 am
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Originally Posted by weeghman View Post
At this point I really hope Hendry just stops dealing with the Orioles cause I no longer see the vast difference it is going to make in the lineup. I would rather him try to work a deal for Kahlil Greene and keep Derosa at 2nd. I see Greene as a much bigger upgrade over Theriot than I do Roberts over Derosa. .
I disagree. While Greene is better than Theriot, adding Roberts would be more beneficial. Roberts has a higher OBP. Having Roberts gives Lou more options as DeRossa can play multiple poisitions well. With the increased # of pitchers needed on the 25 man roster, the Supersub is becoming for baseball, what the 6th man has become in basketball. Theriot has only been around for a year. He has room to improve. And he should. Plus, Roberts at the top of the order would improve the Cubs lineup better than Greene's bat. Greene wouldn't be leading off, so we have a guy who hits homers at the top of the order rather than an OBP guy.
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  #20  
Old Jan 31st 2008, 9:15 am
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I disagree. While Greene is better than Theriot, adding Roberts would be more beneficial. Roberts has a higher OBP. Having Roberts gives Lou more options as DeRossa can play multiple poisitions well.
The difference in offensive production between Greene and Theriot is alot more substantial than the difference between Roberts and DeRosa. If you look at the whole picture it is probably something like this:

Roberts>>DeRosa, DeRosa>>>>>>Fontenot
Greene>>>>>>>>>Theriot, Theriot>>Fontenot

I'm too lazy to actually quantify the differences in OPS, but I think they are pretty substantially in favor of Greene over Roberts. I also would think Greene would be the #6 hitter, not hitting at the top of the lineup. Greene's defense would be a improvement over Theriots. That's more saying how good Greene is, not that Theriot wasn't adequate last year.

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Theriot has only been around for a year. He has room to improve.
I don't think so and neither do many of his projections. He is miserable against RHP. He is best utilized as a sub off the bench against LHP. RHP pitchers are clearly not afraid to pitch to him and he clearly wore down and was less effective once he became the everyday starter at SS after the Izturis trade.

Quote:
Plus, Roberts at the top of the order would improve the Cubs lineup better than Greene's bat. Greene wouldn't be leading off, so we have a guy who hits homers at the top of the order rather than an OBP guy
I honestly don't think that there is much of a difference in RS if it is Soriano/Roberts or Roberts/Soriano.
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